00:01
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
To scrape or not to scrape. That is the question. Whether it is nobler to suffer the pain of outrageous techniques. Oh, hi everybody. Welcome to Wednesday tissue talk.
What Is Scraping, or IASTM?
00:23
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
And me. I’m here to I’m nine. He’s not the only one doing techniques. I’m here to dammit. Okay. Today let’s talk scraping. What is scraping?
So what are even we talking about? Like, we don’t even know what scraping is or what, what the heck scraping it is a buzzword. It has been around for a while now, where you’re going to see people walking around with like, not the red cups that the red cup, the red that’s cupping scraping is when they have high Sadie.
When they have really strong scratches and it looks like they’d been attacked by a bear and somebody had been scratching them up and down their legs, their arms, their back.
01:08
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Shareable black and blue are just destroyed,
01:10
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Potentially bloody, but light bleeding. All of that scraping is actually what’s known as IASTM. I’m sorry,
01:20
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
What? R.
IASTM, which means instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization.
01:27
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
I followed that. Okay.
01:28
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yeah. It’s a really popular treatment. It’s growing in popularity all over the place for mild fascial restriction.
Now, what myofascial restriction is myofascial is muscle and fascia. Remember fascia is moved in and out of our body all over. It surrounds everything.
All of our little muscle bundles are our fast tickles, which are a little muscle fibers over into the big muscles and all the way through our organs and everything soft tissue,
01:58
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Right. It’s in there. It’s in there.
01:59
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Too. If I pull one area, I’m going to get pulled on from the opposite side, because fascia is everything’s connected.
Muscle fascia can’t have muscle without fascia doesn’t really work that way. It’s a real popular treatment for this kind of restriction. What that kind of restriction is Highmark. My two favorite fans are now online.
Stop talking to one another and actually talk to us this time. Focus, stop mark. Anyway, what this is, is actually it’s. It’s when we use different mobilization techniques and different instruments that are designed to provide an ability to mobilize scar tissue, adhesions, dehydrated tissue, bring blood to the area.
If we have any knots, we have a tendency to use them. You may have heard this from Graston. Graston is a type of technique that uses these scraping tools and they have trademarked the name.
If you hear somebody saying Graston, they have to actually be grasped and certified in order to do it, but let’s talk about, they are not Jade.
03:19
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
They are green plastic.
03:22
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
I do. I actually, I do have a J when I start, we’re going to talk about somebody when I started with John Washoe, which is where it all originated from. Yeah.
03:29
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yes. So soft tissue mobilization. I S T M it is a skilled myofascial intervention and it’s used for soft tissue treatment. It’s based around the principles of James Siri, ax and James Siri ax actually invented cross friction massage.
Now, what is cross friction? Massage? Cross friction massage is if you have muscle fibers that line up like this, remember where our muscle fibers drop in and contract and elongate. So they actually potentially sit this way.
04:01
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
It’s a little more spirally, but we’ll go with it.
04:04
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Okay. That’s actually how they do it, but whatever.
Scraping Can Fix Adhesions
What happens is you get an adhesion or you get tissue that’s kind of stuck, or you get scar tissue and your fibers ended up looking this, what cross friction massage is having somebody, either therapist or using a tool.
What they’re doing is they’re going in and they’re loosening up all of the fibers that are in between. What that does is it allows it to straighten out and then allows us to move it again.
Because if you remember, if we have it like this, our range of motion becomes very limited.
04:39
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
It’s applied. Can’t get in there as well as my we’re in our normal alignment.
04:43
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Right? Cross friction massage is an ability for us to go across the fiber, to open it up then to put it back into its natural resting length so that now the body starts to move. Okay. So what about this?
I S TM soft tissue, the scraping, what these are usually applied using instruments that are made of either stainless steel, plastic. I know people who’ve used spoons, bottle caps, you name it.
It’s usually made of stainless steel or are good plastic with beveled edges. The reason why it contours the body parts that we are using. We can actually get in and go into the area and not be stuck with just a square piece of plastic.
That will allow for deeper penetration into these areas. Now, the reason why these were invented cross friction massage is usually used by manual therapists using their own fingers, elbows, Sophos, and their tools of their own body.
05:53
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
These are used because sometimes the scar tissue and or the adherent tissue is deeper into the body and into the lower layers.
What this does is this allows therapist, the practitioner, whomever is using it to get in deeper and apply more pressure, and also to really spot treat certain areas.
If we have to get into actual scar tissue, that’s used now, the technique itself is said to evolve from gloss Shaw and gloss. Shaw is a method that’s used in Chinese medicine. So talk to me,
06:28
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Been around for quite a long time. Most things that we do and on the Western end, it’s been around for probably 5,000 years, probably before.
06:36
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
A lot of stuff started from China and India. The stuff that we now use was started back then.
What this says is this use GWAS Shaw uses instruments that has a smooth edge to scrape the skin until red blemishes occur.
What that means is the blood flow comes right up into the area. You’re irritating the skin just enough so that the redness comes.
07:01
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Up.
07:03
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yeah. Wash shadow has a different rationale, goal, and application from normal IASTM has been taken into more of a pain movement because it’s not supposed to be painful.
The procedure may change the appearance of your skin because you’re scraping it and you’re scratching it. It involves rubbing or scraping the skin with a massage tool. The blood vessels were what are known as capillaries beneath the surface of your skin can burst.
That’s where the, you get the scratch look and that can result in a skin bruising or minor bleeding, but it’s not necessarily painful. What happens is it has been taken, like you said, and adapted by people who either don’t have the patients don’t have the time or are just trying to get it in bigger, better, faster.
08:01
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Well, w were speaking earlier about this and I, I brought up a point that whenever it seems like a whatever little bit is really good for someone, we think if we do more, that’s better. Right. We found out what the body less is more.
08:14
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Right,
08:14
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Right. We don’t need to take it to that extreme to get more out of it. Right. You actually can get a less of effect. Right.
08:21
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Remember you guys, the bigger picture is you have to know what the objective is that you’re trying to hit. If you’re breaking down scar tissue, it’s not just scratch to break down scar tissue.
You have to actually move it. So you realign the fibers. You actually doing all of that together. You’re not just taking your instrument and going in off on somebody. So wait, which does happen. Now, instruments, what they do.
They effectively break down fascial restrictions and scar tissue. A fascial restriction is normally we’re moving like this. All of a sudden we have adhesion and now you’re not moving anymore. Inflammation comes up and all of a sudden you have knots and pain and all of that restriction and late lack of range of motion.
The ergonomic design of these instruments allows whoever is working the clinician, therapist, whomever. It allows them to treat the effect of area with the appropriate amount of pressure.
When scraping, be aware and diligent not hurt the tissue
09:19
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Now, one thing I will say is these don’t have nerve endings on them. You guys, these don’t. If we’re using these, we can actually go too deep into somebody or put too much pressure into somebody and actually do the tissue more damage than good.
We have to be aware and diligent in what we’re doing to not hurt the tissue when we’re working it, because these are going to be pinpointed, but it’s really easy to take them and start cranking in on somebody which I’ve seen people do.
And it is super painful. What, actually happens when we’re doing this all right, when you scraped somebody and you’re taking your instrument and you’re moving it back and forth, you’re creating what’s called microtrauma to the effective soft tissue structure.
Right? What that does is it causes stimulation of a local inflammatory response. I’m going to work on Mike’s forearms being really tight.
10:20
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
I’m going to scrape him. What’s happening in that is the body is getting a lot of stimuli and it’s starting to get inflamed. The inflammatory response comes in the microtrauma.
What it does is it initiates the reabsorption of all of the access of scar tissue or fibrosis or whatever is adhering into this area. And it moves it back in. It creates all of this healing that rushes into the area and starts to actually help with regeneration.
10:51
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
The healing factors that are naturally floating around on a blood go,
10:55
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Hi, Matt. It’s been forever. So nice to see you. What that does is now the body. Remember, as we’ve spoken before, the body is constantly remodeling whatever is being pulled is actually the stuff that’s being pulled and being tight.
It’s remodeling the bone, it’s remodeling the joint, it’s remodeling the tissue, it’s remodeling everything. As we’re doing this, we’re releasing that area so that it can kind of go back and start to regenerate.
Now collagen can actually come in and help to re load this tissue, so to speak. What we’re doing is we’re helping the body to reabsorb stuff that isn’t working, but also to bring all these new nutrients and collagen to come in and start redistributing.
11:47
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Restoring the balance back into the tissue.
11:49
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Right now, your body has these things called fibroblasts. Fibroblasts and fibro class break down the body fibroblasts build up the body.
We’re doing a lot of this scraping and scraping and scraping, what happens is the, the idea behind it is that you’re creating fibroblasts to go into effect. They’re going to start rebuilding all of the area that has been damaged either through injury, through tearing, through repetitive motion, through, like I said, getting kicked by a horse or falling into a pool, or whatever happens.
You fall on a, you fall on a bird scooter, and you get a dent in your, in your soft tissue. We get to put it back together. What it’s doing is it’s actually helping to benefit you on a cellular level, which is really kind of amazing that we have things that we can use to help somebody kind of get through that, that space where they’re not there yet.
12:56
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Where you can’t heal on your own, these will help aid in healing.
13:01
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Well, why don’t mention all the time and you can listen, you can look back all the time is that our bodies are amazing. These things that we’re in are absolutely outstandingly, amazing. They function so well.
Sometimes they need a little help. That’s what we’re here for is that give the body that little extra help to clear things out. Yeah.
13:18
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yeah. Not only is it doing this in a cellular level, right.
Where we’re rebuilding and we re nourishing and bringing the college and back in it’s like, this is why a lot of women will go in for the laser peels because it damages the skin on a cellular level and then the college and we’ll come back and start rebuilding. What we’re doing is we’re doing it on the body.
They’re doing it for more aesthetic purposes. We’re doing it for more functional purposes, right. To get the body moving and, and going again. Using this technique, are you using lubrication?
No. No lubrication. The reason why is because you want to actually scratch the skin. If you use lubrication, a lot of the grass dinner, I S T M. Thanks, mark. Mark is going to answer all the questions for Sadie.
Thank you for just talking and we’ll just go on about our day.
Scraping stimulates the mechano sensitive neurons
14:15
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
The reason why you don’t want to use a lot of lubrication is you actually want to irritate the skin.
That’s the whole point of it is to bring irritation into that area so that it starts to rebuild it. You start to break down the scar tissue and all of the bound tissue in there. Remember, it doesn’t only work on a cellular level, but it also works on a neurophysiological and as a neurophysiological effect.
Let me just say that. What that does is that stimulates the mechano sensitive neurons through all of the skin deformation by the instrument. What’s, it’s making the brain now work.
It’s now connecting the central nervous system down into the skin, and it’s sending data back up like, Hey, this is hurting. Hey, this isn’t hurting. Hey, this is a lot, Ooh, this is an override override.
The mechano sensitive neurons, that includes all the mechanical receptors, which are important, responsible for pain perception.
15:16
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Now hurt, hurt, hurt, drop the pain, overloading it. Essentially you’re kickstarting and whose new healing process.
Absolutely. Yeah. That’s exactly it. In order for us to heal, sometimes we have to do damage in order for that to happen. And that’s just kinda how it is.
That’s like, I mean, there’s a lot of conversations on that going on right now with all of the new stuff going on with the knee replacements and building new cartilage into the joint, because they’re doing microtrauma into the area to build new cartilage, because that they’re finding out that if they keep it within that area, it starts to grow on itself.
But back to scraping. Cause I digress cause you guys got me there. So, so what’ll happen is you overload the body and then the pain level drops. Now we, the healing process can start, right?
16:14
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
We are finishing a hill across because sometimes the body doesn’t complete the job all the way, because how it goes, we usually, we don’t allow it.
16:19
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
To.
16:21
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Bounce back in something way too soon. We scar over an area that should’ve healed out.
16:25
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yeah. Why would we do that? Humans? How silly are we? We would never want to do something like that. That’s craziness, perfect. Find out.
Also doing assisted soft tissue mobilization, it also affects the vac vascular response. What vascular is it brings blood flow to injured tissue that isn’t getting the blood flow. Because remember when things are injured, they’re not going to get the blood flow that’s needed necessarily.
If you have scar tissue is not going to get the blood flow that isn’t needed necessarily. If you’re having a Hegelians, it’s not going to get anything that’s being compressed or pushed. The blood is not being able to get into. By scraping it, you’re actually bringing blood into the injured soft tissue.
What they found is they found that there’s more healing that happens when you bring stuff in and the swelling goes down and all of this starts to happen at a faster rate than if you didn’t do it at all.
17:27
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
What does that mean in the big picture? Now we’ve told you kind of what scraping is. We’ve told you what Graston is. We’ve told grasses as a technique that is trademarked underneath the whole idea of scraping.
Can you, do you have to have a specific tool to scrape? No, you can use this. If you need to. I know people who have used kitchen tools, You can use the back of a butter knife as long as you’re not cerated and you’re not stabbing people.
There a risk of damaging the dermatomes with this technique? Yeah. Here’s the difference. You guys, you can easily go too deep, too hard, too fast and scratch the bejesus out of somebody. Do.
18:13
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
You need that? But Jesus, in that,
18:15
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Yeah, we need some Jesus in our life. Don’t wait don’t we all need Jesus.
Listen, the other thing with this is you, you want to scratch the surface so that you get the healing. If you go too hard, you can actually do damage to the area.
How many of you guys have seen people that are like screaming for their lives as they’re getting it done? This, this shouldn’t really, in my opinion, it shouldn’t hurt.
18:42
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
One spot on a body that doesn’t apply to as the bottom of the foot plantar fasciitis, get in on bone spurs. Only way to make a difference there is to get up on it. And I’m just saying,
18:55
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Get.
18:55
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Up. We only do it for about five seconds. It’s a quick release technique for the plantar fasciitis. And then you’re moving on. It’s not something you’re going to duration, no duration like an hour.
19:04
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Well, this isn’t straight. You’re not scraping somebody for an entire hour. That’s what doggone sure. It should be small areas. Not necessarily the whole entire back, either. In my opinion.
Now I know people have differing opinions on that. I know that there are a lot of people out there who use these tools as a way of like some I torture because they scratch the heck out of people and it really actually doesn’t do better.
It actually makes them worse because now it brings into not just the inflammatory effect, but it brings in, it triggers the pain responders and to, well, now they’re going to be guarding and they’re not going to be actually getting better because their body is overloaded with too much pain.
You want to, it’s a fine line that you get to play in with that.
19:51
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
If you’re, if you’re out there and you’re finding that this works for you. Okay, good. You’re entitled to that.
19:56
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Unfortunately, this goes along with the whole no pain, no gain. Some people really feel like in order to make it a difference in somebody or make it a difference in their themselves, they have to actually see the pain happening in their body.
They have to see the redness. They have to see the scratches. They have to see the marks. The perceived idea of collateral damage being acceptable as a product of IAS, TM may not be great.
You got it. Exactly. Th the idea too, is we get to educate, and that’s why we’re doing this. We get to educate people that it doesn’t have to hurt in order for you to get better. It actually shouldn’t hurt.
The reason why you’re hurting now is because something wasn’t working. We need to make sure that we change the listening. For most people, we got to change their listening so that they understand that you guys get to be pain-free by being pain-free you.
It Doesn’t Have to Hurt To Make It Better
20:55
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
I mean, it doesn’t have to hurt for you to make it better. It’s a hard conversation to have with a lot of people, because they feel like it’s got to hurt for me to feel better.
Remember, if you go too hard on somebody that respect pain response that you’re feeling is more of like a dopamine response, because your body is like, get rid of it. It’s going to try and push it away, whatever it can.
So it hurts for a second. It’s like, oh, I got, feel so much better. As soon as it stops, you feel so much better, but you do your ongoing, it’s an ongoing process of injury that you’re actually giving up.
21:30
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
You have to see is, do you have a net gain?
Do you actually see an improvement and it improving so that you don’t need to have it done again or less and less, or is it, you have to keep doing it over and over again and not seeing any change.
21:42
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Right. The other thing to you guys is if you are doing, if it doesn’t hurt, it doesn’t work. Yes. That’s not how it works at all right.
It should be, if it works, it doesn’t hurt. If it’ll work and not hurt. I mean, there’s a thousand of those that you could do, right?
Here’s the thing half of the time when we’re doing this, if we have an objective to why we’re doing, and we have a game plan, like I’m going to go after Mike’s forearm, because Mike’s forearm has, has an adhesion in here has some scar tissue.
This is pointless. If you don’t do this and move it and put it back together. You gotta put Humpty Dumpty back together, again, you can’t just scrape and then expect the results of that to be the end, all the end game.
You got to think about range of motion and actually, what are we doing with our bodies to move them?
22:33
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Because the body is meant to move. We were born, drew moves. The whole point of it is that if we can create more range of motion in the body, then the body has a chance to actually get better.
22:47
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
That’s it?
22:48
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
And that’s it. I’m done.
22:50
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Drop the.
22:50
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Tool I’m done. That is your IAS TM go-to to scrape or not to scrape. Do you scrape Mike is Humpty Dumpty.
23:02
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
I’m your home D The full wrap, but,
Choose a Certified Person To Perform IASTM
23:09
Julie Pitois LMT, CAMTC
Oh my God. This is where the wheels fall off.
You guys, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. I hope you guys, if you do decide to do this, make sure you get somebody who’s qualified to do it. The thing is anybody can pick up a tool.
Any tool can pick up a tool and scrape people. What you want to do is you want to make sure that this person is certified to do this or understands and has been trained in how to do this kind of work.
What that’ll do is that’ll make everybody’s process yours theirs, much easier. So I hope that this has helped.
We will see you next week at 1230.
24:04
Mike Julian LMT, CAMTC
Bye let’s go get scraped.